Waiter, There’s Woo in My Food, Part 5: Falun Gong

Perhaps you picked up a pamphlet at a small Chinese restaurant such as Veggie Heaven1, or maybe you came across a large group doing exercises and meditation in a public park, or you may have even witnessed one of their many protests complete with mock-torture scenes. You don’t have to look to far to see that in major cities across the globe Falun Gong has taken hold. Practitioners of Falun Gong claim that it is nothing more than a personal practice of gentle exercises and mediation aimed at “cultivating” better health and well-being, while the Chinese government has labeled it an “evil cult” and implement policies aimed at eradicating it. So whats really going on here?

Drawing on a number of Eastern traditions, as well as a dash of New Age mysticism, Li Hongzhi founded Falun Gong in China in 1992. Li’s “cultivation system” bore many similarities to a number of already widespread forms of slow moving and meditative exercises called qigong, having grown out of the tail-end of China’s great “qigong fever”2. As its popularity grew Falun Gong soon eclipsed many earlier groups with its numbers swelling well into the millions.

Li didn’t just promise better health like other forms of qigong but also the attainment of “special powers” and ultimately salvation. Li also teaches that he can psychically insert a rotating Falun, or “dharam wheel”, that is “intelligent” and “composed of high-energy matter” into the lower abdomen of followers. As this wheel rotates clockwise it gathers energy which “provides salvation to the practitioner” from the universe. As it rotates counter clockwise it releases energy “that can save any being and rectify any abnormal condition.” This energy has healing properties, Li teaches, and the practice of Falun Gong can heal serious illness. Because of this many practitioners regularly forgo modern medical treatment.

Li’s teachings also have a strong moral component as well. In general Li’s morality is socially conservative and at points reaches outright bigotry. Li has denounced pre- and extra-marital sex as well as homosexuality. Of the latter he has been quoted saying, “Gods view them as filthy.” His views on race are no less objectionable. Heaven according to Li is racially segregated; white people have their own heaven; Asians have their own heaven; black people have their own heaven; but interracial children are “rootless” have no place without Li’s assistance. And then there is the sexism, Li bemoans “so-called women’s liberation” as a cause of “the degeneration of society’s morality”.

Aside from his bigoted views on race, gender, and sexuality, Li also has some strange and apocalyptic ideas, saying that the “biggest cause of society’s change today is that people no longer believe in orthodox religion. They go to church, but they no longer believe in God. They feel free to do anything.” Ok, that’s about on par with what you might heard from a fundamentalist Christan in the US. But Li continues, “The second reason is that since the beginning of this century, aliens have begun to invade the human mind and its ideology and culture.” Wait, aliens!? Tell me more!

“The aliens have introduced modern machinery like computers and airplanes. They started by teaching mankind about modern science, so people believe more and more science, and spiritually, they are controlled. Everyone thinks that scientists invent on their own when in fact their inspiration is manipulated by the aliens. In terms of culture and spirit, they already control man. Mankind cannot live without science.

The ultimate purpose is to replace humans. If cloning human beings succeeds, the aliens can officially replace humans. Why does a corpse lie dead, even though it is the same as a living body? The difference is the soul, which is the life of the body. If people reproduce a human person, the gods in heaven will not give its body a human soul. The aliens will take that opportunity to replace the human soul and by doing so they will enter earth and become earthlings.”

How anyone buys this stuff is beyond me.

For a number of years Falun Gong enjoyed official state sanction through the China Qigong Science Research Association (CQSRA), the agency charged with the regulation of China’s various qigong groups. Though Li often found himself at odds with the CQSRA in their desire for a “scientific” approach to qigong research. But eventually Party sentiments toward qigong began to shift and an attempt was made to exert more control over the various organizations while eliminating what was viewed as superstitious and “anti-scientific” aspects of the movement. Li balked at these moves and withdrew Falun Gong from the CQSRA in 1996 resulting in a government crackdown and the banning of the group’s literature.

For the next few years Falun Gong practitioners peacefully protested the government’s actions and what they perceived as an orchestrated smear campaign in the media. Hundreds to thousands of protestors would besiege government or media offices, often meditating as they did so, only to disperse soon afterward. Then on April 25th, 1999 nearly 10,000 Falun Gong followers surrounded a central government compound in Beijing to protest recent unfavorable coverage of the group and the arrest of fellow practitioners in the previous days. Perhaps the Party bureaucrats saw in the massive gathering shadows of China’s past when large religious and martial arts groups led popular uprisings such as the Boxer or Taiping Rebellion. Or maybe they were simply concerned of it looking like they had lost control. Whatever the reason, this protest, though peaceful, greatly worried Party officials who demanded a solution once and for all to the “Falun Gong problem”.

Soon following this protest China implemented an all-out ban on Falun Gong, intensifying their efforts to crush the group. The Chinese authorities have since imprisoned thousands of practitioners, with accusations of police torture and abuse rampant. Many others have been sent to “re-education through labor” camps, where once again accusations of torture and abuse are common. Falun Gong supporters claim that through beatings and executions that hundreds, possibly thousands, of practitioners have been killed. They also claim that Falun Gong practitioners have been routinely targeted for execution to supply China’s organ transplant market, with the organs being taken out while the victim is still alive.3

The Chinese government denies the worst of the accusations but still claims that some harsh measures against Falun Gong are necessary because they represent a significant threat to public health and social stability. Additionally they charge that Falun Gong has led to the deaths of over 1,600 people in the form of suicide, murder, and medical neglect. Falun Gong supporters dispute these claims and say instead that what the government counts as suicide were cases of torture and state murder. Falun Gong found much sympathy in the West and not everyone at home was on-board with the draconian measures being used either. Then came January 23rd, 2001.

On the eve of Chinese New Year in 2001 five Falun Gong practitioners set themselves on fire in Tiananmen Square while in meditation. The event has since become hotly contested with Falun Gong supporters denying any link to the individuals, saying that in their belief system suicide is forbidden. They have even going so far as to claim that the whole thing was a false-flag, complete with paid actors, staged by the government to justify further crackdown. Following this event public sentiments in China shifted even more in favor of the government’s campaign against Falun Gong.4

Since 2001 the anti-Falun Gong campaign in China has continued unabated, with continued arrests and police abuse. My own research into the issue leads me to conclude that the Chinese government is indeed guilty of human right’s abuses. However it also leads me the believe that Falun Gong is not benign force for personal or social good. The actions of the Chinese Government toward Falun Gong practitioners, even if the absolute worst of it is untrue, should be condemned. But we should also not be blind to the problematic aspects of Falun Gong. When a self-appointed “Master” teaches that a few simple exercises can cure illness and bring salvation, that aliens are here on earth to create discord while using science to control us, that racial segregation is the way of heaven, that gays are filthy, and that women need to know their place, it’s problematic.

Notes:

1. This is how I first encountered Falun Gong. At one point in my life I was on the streets and traveled from place to place. When I was in Austin, TX some other street kids told me about a place on “The Drag” that would feed homeless kids. I wandered down to Veggie Heaven and soon was handed a take out container filled with rice and a wonderfully spicy tofu dish. So I don’t wish for anything in this article to be taken  as a disparagement of Veggie Heaven or their staff. In my experience they are amazingly kind people and their food is equally amazing.

2. The “qigong fever” marked a period of great enthusiasm for and interest in qigong, even among the scientific community and Party bureaucrats. Early advocate, Liu Guizhen, explains qigong,

“The Character ‘qi’ here means breath, and ‘gong’ means a constant exercise to regulate breath and posture; that is to say, what popular parlance calls to practice until one has mastery [you gongfu}; to use medical perspectives to organize and research this qigong method; and to use it for therapy and hygiene, while removing the superstitious dross of old: so it is thus called qigong therapy.”

For more on the “qigong fever” you can check out Qigong Fever: Body, Science, and Utopia in China By David A. Palmer. And for more on the roots of the concept of Qi in China please see The Roots of Qi by Donald Mainfort.

3. The claim of systematic organ harvest is perhaps the one of the most controversial of the groups claims (along with the self-immolation, see Note 4 below) and has received considerable traction among supporters in the west. The story first broke in a 2006 article in The Epoch Times (a Falun Gong affiliated paper) citing two eyewitnesses reporting that the Sujiatun Thrombosis Hospital was being used as a concentration camp and organ harvesting facility. Visits to the site seemed to refute such claims however. There are also claims of an extensive network of such facilities in China as well as claim of live people being shipped to embassies world wide to be butchered for their organs.

A report from human rights lawyer David Matas and former Canadian Secretary of State David Kilgour seems to give the claim merit. However a subsequent US State Department report and other investigations conflict with these claims and find little or no evidence. In the end the claim looks pretty sketchy and seems to largely circulate due to certain anti-communist and anti-Chinese biases. Does China have some issues in the organ transplant area? Sure they do. It is widely acknowledged that they badly need reform (and they are moving in that direction). But does that mean that they are systematically targeting practitioners of Falun Gong to steal their organs? I’m not so sure.

4. The survivors were interviewed a year later and then a decade later. This is also not the only act of self-immolation attributed to Falun Gong by the Chinese government. The 2001 self-immolation event could be a post all on its own, but I’m not going to delve too deeply into it here. I do however recommend that  readers do some further research on their own as it is quite an interesting conspiracy theory. Anyone familiar with some recent conspiracy theories making the rounds on the internet will see many parallels: grainy cctv stills with apparently anomalous things circled, claims of crisis actors, amateur facial comparisons, low-budget documentaries, ect. My conclusion? I’m very skeptical of the false flag claim.

Further Resources:

Falun Gong: The face of Chinese opposition or a Chinese scientology? by xgz

Falun Gong – harmless exercise fanatics or weird cult by udo schuklenk

Falun Gong vault on Cult Education.com

Sima Nan: Fighting Qigong Pseudoscience in China by Donald Mainfort

A Star Turn for China’s Cult Buster By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL

The Danger of Promoting Falun Gong by Sanal Edamaruku

Zhuan Falun by Li Hongzhi (the central sacred text for Falun Gong practitioners)

The Religion of Falun Gong by Benjamin Penny (book, sorry no link, go to the library)

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27 Responses to “Waiter, There’s Woo in My Food, Part 5: Falun Gong”

  1. Rich Says:

    Thank you for writing such a thorough analysis of the issues surrounding the practice and persecution of Falun Dafa. I understand your concerns about certain aspects of its teachings, and just thought you might find it interesting that despite the controversy many mixed race (I’m on of them), homosexual and women (the vast majority) continue to practice and enjoy its physical and mental benefits.

    • skepticalvegan Says:

      Thank you for your kind response Rich. Yes, that is something that people should be aware of, just as despite some passages in the Christan bible about intermarriage and homosexuality many practicing Christians are of mixed race and/or gay. I am however concerned that Falun Gong may have been liberalized in recent years to gain wider appeal, or that those teaching may have been downplayed, regardless the words are still there and in some places it may still retain such socially conservative beliefs. Im also not sure its just an issue of exclusion from practice (which as you mention isnt the case) but rather that the ideas about race ans sex themselves are harmful socially and psychologically because the reinforce social systems and personal interactions based on the idea that homosexuality is anything other than normal human behavior, or that women are anything but equal, or that there is any real separation between races. Even without actual discrimination against them words like “filthy” are hurtful to gay people, likewise for statements Li has made on race and sex.

      I hope you understand that I just personally have concerns about many different beliefs systems and like to investigation them. In the end I do disagree with many of the social and metaphysical teachings. However I hold no ill will toward practitioners of Falun Gong and as I mentioned in the post they even fed me while I was homeless so my personal interactions are nothing but positive. Nothing Ive written should be taken as an endorsement of the Chinese policy on Falun Gong.

      Again, thanks for the reply. I wish you and other practitioners the best of luck in fighting for your personal and religious freedom.

  2. Gina Says:

    Greetings from one skeptical vegan to another. There are a few things that I think you don’t understand, so I will just name one.
    You write:
    “When a self-appointed “Master” teaches that a few simple exercises can cure illness and bring salvation…”
    I am an acupuncturist and herbalist, and I can tell you that Master Li has never said that. I have taught my clients the exercises and it helps in their recovery, but no one ever said the exercises in and of themselves cure illness.
    As a holistic mind and body practice, some illnesses are cured, while practitioners follow the holistic lifestyle, mind and emotional discipline, AND do the exercises.
    I really don’t know where you get the idea that women are not equal in this system. As a woman, I feel incredibly empowered by his teachings.
    As far the different heavens go regarding race, this is really complicated. I am not enlightened on this subject, so I will just share some hearsay. Many people report going to Jesus’ heaven and seeing different races there and no race is excluded from the reports, although one pastor said he did not see many Chinese and asians. Jesus is said to care for the whole world. Yet, there are different tribes, like the Dogon tribe and some aborigines that claim to have celestial connections specific to their tribes. Buddha shakyamuni talked about so many levels of heaven…some with form and some formless. He talked about heavens that are beyond reincarnation and some that are still within reincarnation, and where one ends up is based on how much of their attachments and desires they have let go of. Master Ii has also talked about these formless heavens (where people no longer have bodies), so if I were you, I would not hang on to the race concept too much.
    Regarding homosexuality, this teaching is strictly for practitioners and is not intended for the general public or to influence politics or society or even friends and family of the practitioners. These practitioners want to master their thoughts and emotions and achieve mind over matter to some degree, so it is a standard given to them, but they are also not supposed to publicly judge anyone with these standards.
    For the record, the teacher Li Hongzhi wants the public to know the basic facts of the practice–that practitioners strive to be good people–so they understand the false propaganda from the Chinese government. This is the basic point of the public demonstrations…to clarify the truth and dispel the propaganda, because it’s all over the Chinese media. I have been around the practitioners for years and like you, my experience is that they are genuinely kind hearted people and strive to improve themselves.
    Regarding the alien stuff…if you go on youtube, you will see masses of people investigating aliens and ufos. The reason why some people like me have open ears to Master LI is because there is so much evidence to their existence. If you watch Christian television, they speculate that aliens are demons. There are so many theories out there. So no wonder that some people inquire from clairvoyants.
    The basic gist of the practice is the integrated mind and body cultivation found in one book (Zhuan falun). I can’t prove or disprove any controversial points Master Li makes, but in my own life, I have found the mind and body cultivation methods to be very enlightening. I was the one searching for a teaching that would allow me to master my mind and emotions. I sought out a teaching. I found this and was blown away. Yet, I rarely suggest this practice to others because of the strict discipline. One of the principles of this practice is tolerance to others.

  3. insert name Says:

    @Gina, if you’re name is Gina: stop substantiating claims with “anecdotal evidence”, this is the internet, verification of such “evidence” is not going to happen. Moreover, your evidence are poor ones that invite jeering rather than support.

    Since you vomited out an entire essay of specious arguments, I simply invite the reader to participate in a zinger seeking fest picking apart your essay even if we take all of your claims as true.

  4. TD Says:

    I am preparing to read Falun Dafa’s books. Can you provide a bibliography or works cited page that directs a person directly to what you quote and summarize? Your article is not of use unless you approach it academically.

    • skepticalvegan Says:

      There is a footnote section as well as resource section as well as hyperlinks to sourcing with in the text of the article. I’ve provided my sources. If you have a specific question I can try and address it.

    • Ethan D. Says:

      Hi! I am a believer of Falun Dafa. This article has stated some truth. However, the author might have mistaken the religion completely. Master Li teaches us to be truthful, companionable, and tolerating other people. I have experienced my family’s change after we started practicing. My dad’s mood increased, he stopped being so aggressive, and most of all, his spine problems are almost healed completely. Speaking of health benefits, there are truly tons upon tons of personal stories and experiences of health increase and curing effects after people believed in Master Li. The attached link are only a fraction of the personal experiences. One of them being someone who had cancers in two of her organs and three other are failing. But the cancer cells disappeared and her organs started working just after 5 days when she walked back into Falun Dafa. Zhuan Falun is an amazing book, i have read it countless times and yet every time i reread it, i discover something new. I strongly suggest you read Zhuan Falun. Have a nice day!

      http://en.minghui.org/cc/17/

    • Ethan D. Says:

      There are a lot of books about FalunGong. But i strongly suggest you read Zhuan Falun first or you won’t understand anything and can mistaken what Master Li is referring to.
      All the book are in this website. And Zhuan Falun is the first one. 😀

      http://en.falundafa.org/falun-dafa-books.html

  5. Ethan D. Says:

    Dear skepticalvegan,
    there are a few points that i want to clear up

    1)Self-Immolation on Tiananmen Square is actually a hoax. Please read the following article. There are tons of mistakes when forging it that we spotted it immediately. There are also other hoaxes that I hope you can acknowledge. Such as the 1400 deaths hoax and many many others.
    http://en.minghui.org/cc/88/
    http://en.minghui.org/cc/89/
    2)Master Li’s religion have truly healed many people. There are tons of personal experiences in the following link. I know you may think those can be made up. But think about this: there are people from every single level of society that follows Falundafa, including scientists, modern philosophers, doctors, and every job you can think of. They wont blindly follow a self-claimed master and believe everything he says without seeing effect and experience things such as falun. There is also no possible chance that they continued to follow Master Li when Chinese government is torturing them and breaking their families.
    3)Sexism. Master Li has not said a single word about how women are less than men. He said women’s ways of exercising and transformation is different from men. Men are yang and women are yin. That isn’t sexist, because both yang and yin need to be balanced in the universe.
    4)When Christians are tortured and persecuted in ancient Rome, does that mean they are against society and doesn’t want peace to the world? Similar in today’s scenario. Falun Dafa taught us nothing but truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance. We became better persons than before and we started to care about our friends, family, company, workplace, and leaders more. Our neighbors felt nothing but warmth and cared by the Falun Dafa practitioners. On the July 20 of 1999, Chinese government started to arrest and torture us and threatened to torture us to death if we don’t give up out religion.
    5)Your article stated Master Li is racist. Not so. Why? He did not say any race is less than another, he said a race is created by their color skin’s god and they live separate from each other. How can you mistaken that into Master Li said “in heaven, everyone is racist?” If they want to visit each other? sure!

    Here are some links about what really happened.

    http://en.minghui.org/cc/15/
    http://en.minghui.org/cc/37/
    http://en.minghui.org/cc/4/
    http://en.minghui.org/cc/3/
    http://en.minghui.org/cc/8/
    http://en.minghui.org/cc/63/
    http://en.minghui.org/cc/67/
    http://en.minghui.org/cc/68/
    http://en.minghui.org/cc/65
    http://en.minghui.org/cc/35/

    Have a nice day! 😀

    • skepticalvegan Says:

      1) Ive reviewed the evidence you’ve linked to regarding the Self-Immolation in Tiananmen Square and find it unconvincing to say the least. In fact it has all the classic signs of a false flag conspiracy theory consisting of anomaly hunting such as we saw following the Boston Bombing or 9/11.

      2) I don’t think all or even most stories of “healing” are made up out of whole cloth. Rather they are the result of a variety of factor including placebo effect, misdiagnosis, spontaneous regression, stress management, ect. And keep in mind that many religions and alternative health practitioners make the same claims. I’m not really impressed with anecdotes though, anyone can write anything they want on the internet…I would prefer scientific evidence or at the very least detailed case histories from a medical professional, not a follower.

      3) As for sexism, Master Li basically says “Hey, I got nothing against women but they need to know their place.” Thats sexism. I’ll let my readers judge that from the following quotes,

      “According to the theory of yin and yang, females should be gentle and not strong. Males are yang and strong, while females are yin and gentle. When strength and gentleness are put together, it’s sure to be really harmonious. … this society has degenerated, there’s been a reversal of yin and yang in modern times, and it’s most noticeable in China. Look at the athletes—women always win more medals, while men seldom win medals. Why is it that yin is very strong and yang is very weak in everything? This factor is caused by the reversal of yin and yang. And then there’s the side-effect of advocating so-called women’s liberation. It is the degeneration of society’s morality that causes the changes in people’s hearts in society

      “Question: In today’s society, the concept of equality between men and women prevails. As female disciples, how can we be gentle and tender while progressing diligently in cultivation?

      Teacher: People are saying nowadays that women are becoming more and more liberal and their personalities are getting stronger. … If in your daily life you’re like a gentle, true woman, your competence will let you have everything you deserve all the same. You don’t necessarily have to express yourself in tough and manly ways to obtain those things. In other words, if you’re a woman, you must act like one, and be kind and gentle. Only then can you gain respect and love from men. If you aren’t kind and gentle, men will be afraid of you when they see you. I remember that in the West before the fifties, men were very gentlemanly, and they treated women with respect. And because women acted like women, men loved to help them, respect them, and care for them. At the same time, in a womanly way, women cherished their husbands. That was human behavior. Yet today you have corrupted it all.

      In Asian society, women have become overly strong, causing the men to become like women. If the way of the society becomes like this, will men still be able to walk around with confidence and self-respect? Will they have their manhood? Two people can’t be the head of one household, just as there can’t be two kings of the same mountain. There has to be one head of the household.

      It’s even more blatant in Western society … The sense of a woman relying on her man when they’re married is simply nonexistent. I’m telling you, that is not how human beings should be! (Applause)”

      “When a person becomes a Buddha through cultivation, he or she will have a male body. … I don’t hold any prejudice against women. … Regardless of whether you are a man or a woman, if you have done bad things or done wrong in certain respects, you might reincarnate in a female body in your next life…. Perhaps women don’t easily generate large amounts of karma.”

      4) Christianity was a socially and politically disruptive force in Rome…and later grew into a violently destructive force across Europe and then much of the world. Truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance are great and you don’t need to baggage of a religion or spiritual master with the associated supernatural mumbo-jumbo to practice truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance. These qualities can be found in some followers of pretty much all faith as well as atheists. I’m not justifying the Chinese govt crack down on Falun Gong and live in a country with religious freedom that includes Falun Gong practitioners…but I am however skeptical of specific claims made by Falun Gong practitioners and Master Li and think that not religion should be beyond criticism.

      5) Yes, the teaching of Falun Gong are racist. Once again I’ll let readers decide,

      “Question: If people of mixed race practice cultivation, which paradise will they go to?

      Teacher: As far as humans go, people of mixed race no longer have corresponding human races in heaven. If they’re cultivators, their outward appearances are no longer important and it all depends on the person’s Primordial Spirit (yuanshen). If his Primordial Spirit is of the white race, he’s white; if his Primordial Spirit is of the yellow race, he’s yellow; if his Primordial Spirit is of the black race, he’s black. It’s a different matter if he practices cultivation.
      Make sure you have your kids learn Chinese; you can’t lose the characteristics of your yellow race. Since there’s no place for you in the Caucasian paradises, you still need to return to the paradises of the yellow race’s people.”

      “Question: Different races have different Heavenly Kingdoms. Why don’t black people from Africa have any?

      Master: Black people, too, have the gods that created them. It’s just that they forgot them rather early.”

      “The way alien beings get human beings to shake free of the gods is to mix the races, causing human beings to become rootless people, just like the plant hybrids people make nowadays. South Americans, Central Americans, Mexicans and some people in South East Asia—all of these races have been mixed. None of this can evade the gods’ eyes. Alien beings have made rather extensive preparations for overtaking human beings.”

      6) And then there is the homophobia,

      “Why was their civilization destroyed? Homosexual things have been found in the archeological artifacts and remains of ancient Greek civilization. The lifestyle at that time was very corrupt, degenerate, and extravagant.”

      “People now want to find a partner of the same sex. Gods think that people do that because they no longer have human values. You are wantonly indulging your thoughts. Your thoughts, like the ones I just mentioned, are not actually you. The mentality that makes you homosexual was driven by postnatally-formed bad things. But you yourself were numbed by them and went along with them and wallowed in the mud. You need to find yourself again and stop doing those filthy things. Gods view them as filthy. No matter whether a government permits it, the law of your government is not the truth of the universe. That’s because the law of a government is made by humans, and when humans make laws, they have the intention to rule and punish others, or they make laws against their conscience in order to protect things and gain power or votes. So they are not made with good intentions.”

      • Ethan D. Says:

        1)I don;t know how the Immolation Hoax is convincing at first. Where did police get that many fire extinguishers in less than 5 mins in a place as big as the Tiananmen Square and why didn’t the camera move during the whole event? not to mention where the professional camera came from. This is clearly a setup

        2)I don’t think anything can heal five organ failures and 2 cancers in the time of two days. There are tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of personal experiences and millions more not shared. How and why would we do this if we don’t know for sure Master Li healed us? I know you might be thinking this is online and everything can be a lie. But consider this. One person’s story can be a lie. Ten people’s story can be a lie, but a hundred? a thousand? ten thousand? hundreds of thousands? what about upon the threat of being tortured and killed by the Chinese government? Why should we hold a false belief and stand against a whole government? Remember back in the 90s, the Chinese government can throw EVERYTHING away including Chinese culture that was passed down for 5k years. How can a false belief survive for more than 3 months? And yet Falun Dafa became more and more popular. How can we to that if we don’t have unmovable beliefs that Falun Dafa is real and Master Li isn’t someone who spreads false belief?

        3)Once again i must make this clear. He isn’t talking about women’s place in society and they are getting schooled and that type of stuff. He is talking about the feminists, guys being girly and vise versa. Master Li answered a question similar to “The female followers in our area is doing better than the males, what can we improve on?” Master Li answered something like “Of course that’s good! Just worry about improving yourself……” in this part: It’s even more blatant in Western society … The sense of a woman relying on her man when they’re married is simply nonexistent. I’m telling you, that is not how human beings should be! (Applause)” I’m Chinese and i read the Chinese or original version. But what i see is complete different. He said woman should behave like a woman, some woman nowadays are beating up her husband and are even treating him like an animal. There is clearly a translation error, I hope you can look in to that.

        4)I don’t know how you can think Master LI is trying to wrap truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance with religion mumbo jumbo. Before the Chinese government started to torture us, our neighbors said nothing but good about us. We always work extra but doesn’t really care about what we receive in return. We are generally ten times and more better in both moral qualities and physical. Is this not good? Why would the Chinese government torture and kill thousands of us? and using the most inhumanely torture methods that makes us live in conditions worse than hell. I personally felt energy surging through me and saw Falun when i was doing exercise 2 just like almost every other followers. I don’t know how you jumped to the conclusion of Master Li wrapping the three virtues in supernatural nonsense mumbo jumbo, I actually don’t.

        5)“Question: If people of mixed race practice cultivation, which paradise will they go to?

        Teacher: As far as humans go, people of mixed race no longer have corresponding human races in heaven. If they’re cultivators, their outward appearances are no longer important and it all depends on the person’s Primordial Spirit (yuanshen). If his Primordial Spirit is of the white race, he’s white; if his Primordial Spirit is of the yellow race, he’s yellow; if his Primordial Spirit is of the black race, he’s black. It’s a different matter if he practices cultivation.
        Make sure you have your kids learn Chinese; you can’t lose the characteristics of your yellow race. Since there’s no place for you in the Caucasian paradises, you still need to return to the paradises of the yellow race’s people.”

        When god created human, they created them with their own skin color. If the god is black, the human is black. If the god is white, he created white people. I don’t know how this is racist. There are a lot of translation errors because the translator seems to not know a lot of the meaning behind words. I apologize on this matter. “Make sure you have your kids learn Chinese; you can’t lose the characteristics of your yellow race. Since there’s no place for you in the Caucasian paradises, you still need to return to the paradises of the yellow race’s people.”
        This means yellow people need to return to their home, aka a yellow people heaven. There is no place for you in the caucasian paradises means you do not live there since you are created and the people there don’t know you.
        I can see why you think he is racist, but all of that is due to translation errors.

        “The way alien beings get human beings to shake free of the gods is to mix the races, causing human beings to become rootless people, just like the plant hybrids people make nowadays. South Americans, Central Americans, Mexicans and some people in South East Asia—all of these races have been mixed. None of this can evade the gods’ eyes. Alien beings have made rather extensive preparations for overtaking human beings.”

        The aliens don’t have humans’ body, thus they cannot return to heaven. When we create clones, thee clone doesn’t have a Primordial Spirit. The aliens seize this opportunity and goes becomes that person. Similar with animals. And I haven;t seen this paragraph in any books, i am sure there is some modification that is intended to make Master Li look racist. But the original text is saying every race of people have a “line” that connects them with the god who created them. A half-blood loses that line. But Master Li can fix that. I must ask, where did you get these articles? this website is the original text, please read them again if you didn’t get your sources from here:http://en.falundafa.org/falun-dafa-books.html

        6)Every single religion nowadays have homophobia. Why? Just like Master Li says:“Why was their civilization destroyed? Homosexual things have been found in the archeological artifacts and remains of ancient Greek civilization. The lifestyle at that time was very corrupt, degenerate, and extravagant.”

        “People now want to find a partner of the same sex. Gods think that people do that because they no longer have human values. You are wantonly indulging your thoughts. Your thoughts, like the ones I just mentioned, are not actually you. The mentality that makes you homosexual was driven by postnatally-formed bad things. But you yourself were numbed by them and went along with them and wallowed in the mud. You need to find yourself again and stop doing those filthy things. Gods view them as filthy. No matter whether a government permits it, the law of your government is not the truth of the universe. That’s because the law of a government is made by humans, and when humans make laws, they have the intention to rule and punish others, or they make laws against their conscience in order to protect things and gain power or votes. So they are not made with good intentions.”

        homosexuality is against the laws of heaven, period.
        ——————————————–
        I hope you can read Zhuan Falun at least twice. Why? Zhuan Falun is a book that teaches you new things no matter how many times you read it. I have read it hundreds of times and i still learn a lot of new things every time i reread it immediately after i finish it. I think you need to read it twice to understand what Master Li is saying. And read Zhuan Falun in a way that isn’t trying to find parts where you can take out a paragraph out and criticize. But read with an attitude of trying to understand Falun Dafa. Please visit the following link to read the original-non modified version of Zhuan Falun:http://en.falundafa.org/falun-dafa-books.html

        • skepticalvegan Says:

          I have no interest in pursuing a homophobic faith.

          • icephoenix17532 Says:

            then you might as well not pursue any faith in god. I ask you to take off the modified version of Falun Dafa’s books and take off the false claims of Master Li being racist and sexist.

            • skepticalvegan Says:

              “then you might as well not pursue any faith in god.”

              Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. But to be fair to religious people, not all religions and not all religious people are anti-gay. I’m sorry that you are.

              “I ask you to take off the modified version of Falun Dafa’s books and take off the false claims of Master Li being racist and sexist.”

              I backed up my claims regarding sexist and racist teaching from Li so I see no need to remove anything and I’ll let my readers go back and judge for themselves,
              https://skepticalvegan.com/2013/09/03/waiter-theres-woo-in-my-food-part-5-falun-gong/#comment-51920

            • icephoenix17532 Says:

              would you care to identify the title of the book of the passage you used. They look very suspicious and modified. How can you prove anything with modified articles?

            • skepticalvegan Says:

              The passage beginning ““According to the theory of yin and yang, females should be gentle and not strong…” is from “Teaching the Fa at a New York Meeting” and can be found on falundafa.org

              The passage that begins “People are saying nowadays that women are becoming more and more liberal and their personalities are getting stronger…” is from “Teaching the Fa at the Eastern U.S. Fa Conference” and is taken directly from FalunDafa.org

              The passage that begins “When a person becomes a Buddha through cultivation, he or she will have a male body…” is from “Teaching the Fa at the Conference in the Midwest-U.S.” and can also be found on FalunDafa.org

              The passage that begins “As far as humans go, people of mixed race no longer have corresponding human races…” is from “Teaching the Fa at a New York Meeting” and can be found on falundafa.org

              The passage that begins “Black people, too, have the gods that created them…” is from
              “Teaching the Fa at the Conference in Houston” also on falundafa.org

              The passage that begins ““The way alien beings get human beings to shake free of the gods is to mix the races…” is from “Teaching the Fa at the Conference in Switzerland” also on falundafa.org

              I’m not even going to bother with the passages on homophobia as you have already established that you and Falun Dafa are anti-gay.

              So there you go, everything quoted is quoted from the Falun Dafa website where it is found in English. This isnt an issue of me mistranslated or altering anything. This is a issue of the disgusting (or sometimes just weird) stuff Li has said.

      • icephoenix17532 Says:

        To add to my previous comment, here is some scientific evidence of “superhuman energy through meditation” and the evidence are proved by University of Stanford, University of Harvard, Healthways Institution of China, Professor Lu Yanfang, and neuro-scientists. I believe if they are followers, they won’t be biased since they are to lose their jobs and law stuff if they forged all this, especially Lu Yanfang, being a professor in China.

        http://www.xraymachines.info/article/542591886/developed-superhuman-energy-through-the-meditation-is-science/

      • icephoenix17532 Says:

        would you care to identify the title of the book of the passage you used. They look very suspicious and modified

        • skepticalvegan Says:

          The passage beginning ““According to the theory of yin and yang, females should be gentle and not strong…” is from “Teaching the Fa at a New York Meeting” and can be found on falundafa.org

          The passage that begins “People are saying nowadays that women are becoming more and more liberal and their personalities are getting stronger…” is from “Teaching the Fa at the Eastern U.S. Fa Conference” and is taken directly from FalunDafa.org

          The passage that begins “When a person becomes a Buddha through cultivation, he or she will have a male body…” is from “Teaching the Fa at the Conference in the Midwest-U.S.” and can also be found on FalunDafa.org

          The passage that begins “As far as humans go, people of mixed race no longer have corresponding human races…” is from “Teaching the Fa at a New York Meeting” and can be found on falundafa.org

          The passage that begins “Black people, too, have the gods that created them…” is from
          “Teaching the Fa at the Conference in Houston” also on falundafa.org

          The passage that begins ““The way alien beings get human beings to shake free of the gods is to mix the races…” is from “Teaching the Fa at the Conference in Switzerland” also on falundafa.org

          I’m not even going to bother with the passages on homophobia as you have already established that you and Falun Dafa are anti-gay.

          So there you go, everything quoted is quoted from the Falun Dafa website where it is found in English. This isnt an issue of me mistranslated or altering anything. This is a issue of the disgusting (or sometimes just weird) stuff Li has said.

  6. icephoenix17532 Says:

    you are using modified versions of Master Li’s books. How can you state anything using them?

    • skepticalvegan Says:

      The passage beginning ““According to the theory of yin and yang, females should be gentle and not strong…” is from “Teaching the Fa at a New York Meeting” and can be found on falundafa.org

      The passage that begins “People are saying nowadays that women are becoming more and more liberal and their personalities are getting stronger…” is from “Teaching the Fa at the Eastern U.S. Fa Conference” and is taken directly from FalunDafa.org

      The passage that begins “When a person becomes a Buddha through cultivation, he or she will have a male body…” is from “Teaching the Fa at the Conference in the Midwest-U.S.” and can also be found on FalunDafa.org

      The passage that begins “As far as humans go, people of mixed race no longer have corresponding human races…” is from “Teaching the Fa at a New York Meeting” and can be found on falundafa.org

      The passage that begins “Black people, too, have the gods that created them…” is from
      “Teaching the Fa at the Conference in Houston” also on falundafa.org

      The passage that begins ““The way alien beings get human beings to shake free of the gods is to mix the races…” is from “Teaching the Fa at the Conference in Switzerland” also on falundafa.org

      I’m not even going to bother with the passages on homophobia as you have already established that you and Falun Dafa are anti-gay.

      So there you go, everything quoted is quoted from the Falun Dafa website where it is found in English. This isnt an issue of me mistranslated or altering anything. This is a issue of the disgusting (or sometimes just weird) stuff Li has said.

    • skepticalvegan Says:

      How can you state anything when you cant even recognize Li’s unaltered words and instead accuse me of deception or modification?

  7. icephoenix17532 Says:

    for “People are saying nowadays that women are becoming more and more liberal and their personalities are getting stronger…”
    will you please paste the whole responce here? especiallty when Master Li said “And because women acted like women, men loved to help them, respect them, and care for them. At the same time, in a womanly way, women cherished their husbands. That was human behavior. Yet today you have corrupted it all.”
    How is this sexist? This means how the society should be, not when woman are beating their husband up every time they see each other.

    for ““When a person becomes a Buddha through cultivation, he or she will have a male body…”
    I seriously can’t undestand why you have selected that very part. I found the following right before that statement:
    If the body you have cultivated achieves Consummation in the realm of Bodhisattva, all of your bodies in the course of your cultivation will have been female, and that is why your future body will be female. Of course, gods can transform themselves. What I’ve described is how their permanent bodies are.
    Do you see the problem? Master Li said when you reach Bodhisattva, your body will turn to female and when you reach Buddha, your body will become male. After that you are whichever gender you are born with.

    for “As far as humans go, people of mixed race no longer have corresponding human races”
    Master Li said:
    Teacher: As far as humans go, people of mixed race no longer have corresponding human races in heaven. If they’re cultivators, their outward appearances are no longer important and it all depends on the person’s Primordial Spirit (yuanshen). If his Primordial Spirit is of the white race, he’s white; if his Primordial Spirit is of the yellow race, he’s yellow; if his Primordial Spirit is of the black race, he’s black. It’s a different matter if he practices cultivation.
    I don’t know how you even come close to the conclusion of him being racist. He gave some examples of relation between him physically and his Primordial Spirit. When god created human, black god created black people, yellow god created yellow people, and so on. There is no mix in heaven, so of course half-bloods don’t have their corresponding race in heaven.

    for “Black people, too, have the gods that created them”
    Master Li said
    “According to the theory of yin and yang, females should be gentle and not strong. Males are yang and strong, while females are yin and gentle. When strength and gentleness are put together, it’s sure to be really harmonious. Nowadays, it’s not that men like to mistreat women, but that this society has degenerated. Both men and women are mistreating others.”
    He talked about both male and female mistreating each other. i’m sure even you have heard of wife beating up husbands. So once again, i don’t understaand how this is sexist

    for “Black people, too, have the gods that created them…”
    i don’t even want to paste Master Li’s quote here. He said black people also have gods that created them. Does this not mean every race have their creator and every race are equal?

    for “The way alien beings get human beings to shake free of the gods is to mix the races…”
    Master Li said right before that statement:
    “The United States is the vanguard in breaking away from all ancient cultures on earth. The cultures of even the most ancient and closed-off nations haven’t been able to escape. The whole world is being impacted by America’s modern culture. England was the vanguard in the manufacture of machinery during the early stages, and Spain was the vanguard for mixing the human races.”
    Is this not true? Is the US not a leader of technology and no tribe have escaped its influence?
    and i already explained why Master Li said “The way alien beings get human beings to shake free of the gods is to mix the races, causing human beings to become rootless people”:
    i will explain once again
    rootless people mean there is no corresponding of them in heaven, AKA mix races. The aliens think that will get humans further apart from god. And they are wrong. But they did indeed make people believe less in god.

    Please tell me why you think what he said is disgusting or weird. This is one of the reason why you should read Zhuan Falun first because you won’t understand many things Master Li said recently when you haven’t read Zhuan Falun.

    • icephoenix17532 Says:

      oops i made a mistake: my fourth paragraph. Here is the correction:

      for ““According to the theory of yin and yang, females should be gentle and not strong”

      Master Li said
      “According to the theory of yin and yang, females should be gentle and not strong. Males are yang and strong, while females are yin and gentle. When strength and gentleness are put together, it’s sure to be really harmonious. Nowadays, it’s not that men like to mistreat women, but that this society has degenerated. Both men and women are mistreating others.”
      He talked about both male and female mistreating each other. i’m sure even you have heard of wife beating up husbands. So once again, i don’t understaand how this is sexist. Master Li also has stated the rule from theory of yin and yang, which has been in China ever since. I dont’ understand how you can use this as Master Li being racist

    • skepticalvegan Says:

      If you cant understand how “There is no mix in heaven, so of course half-bloods don’t have their corresponding race in heaven.” is racist theology then I cant help you.

      I’ve demonstrated that all the quotes I gave are accurate representations of Li’s words. Your arguments arent helping and in fact are only making it sound more like Scientology.

      • icephoenix17532 Says:

        My arguments are 100% valid. Don’t blame me if you can’t understand Master Li’s words even after i tried to explain to you many times and over. I have also demonstrated how Master Li’s Fa are completely logical and “scientific”–in your words. I don’t understand how you can ever think the worlds in heaven have their “residents” that has been living there since the beginning of time and there is no reason for them to leave. They don’t reproduce like we do, as stated my Master Li in Zhuan Falun. “….the creation of one’s actual life is in the space of universe. Because there are many substances of various kinds in this universe, such substances can, through their interactions, produce life.” The people in heaven in their worlds don’t reproduce like we do. They don’t worry about it at all. When someone is “born” in their world, they stay there, there is no reason for them to leave. Would you leave a paradise that you lived in ever since you were born (and that can be billions or tens of billions of years) and go to another? If they visit each other, which they do, then they are of course highly welcomed no matter the race because every life is equal in heaven. Is this not another reason for you to read Zhuan Falun before jumping to conclusions about Master Li’s Fa?

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